“I just read the Bible for what it says.”
Welcome to one of the most annoying statements I hear people say. Why? Because nobody does this.
We all have lenses, called presuppositions, that filter how we process what we read and experience. Think of it like wearing glasses with different types of tint on them. The more objective among us are aware of these lenses and take them into consideration when discerning truth. The subjective among us pretend they don’t exist or that they don’t affect them. Your personality by itself is a huge lens.
Don’t believe me? Click here to take a brief survey. It will give you your Hermeneutics score, which basically shows you how theologically conservative or liberal your lenses are. We use this in hiring new staff as it quickly gives me a glimpse into the presuppositions that you have.
What’s your number? I encourage you to leave it as a comment on this post.
A healthy response to this reality may surprise you. It’s doubt. I’m talking about healthy doubt for the purpose of finding greater clarity and not doubt to excuse laziness or to hide behind. As I’m learning lately, not everyone has the ability to doubt in a healthy way. I submit that there are at least three ingredients needed to doubt through your presuppositions:
- engagement – Do you care enough to ask more questions that will always involve more work? Or, are you content to throw in the towel and accept an easy answer? Will you allow someone else to do your thinking for you and then just skip to the end and tell you what you should believe?
- intellect – Do you have the ability to ask critical questions? Do you know enough to realize how much you don’t know? Ignorance may be bliss, but it is also isolating from reality. How much do you expose yourself to new ideas and to perspectives that don’t agree with you?
- maturity – Can you handle believing in something that makes the most sense to you even if it doesn’t make perfect sense? Even if you still have questions about it? Can you doubt without it paralyzing you?
Many people cannot do one or more of these and thus conclude that doubt is an evil that must be avoided at all costs… especially by Christians! This breaks my heart and will cripple the Church if left unchecked. Many people fail to realize the complexity and value of good questions.
This is why using a verse, often out of context, to support your argument is a weak argument. This is known as proof-texting and it amazes me how often it is used. Almost always the people doing this think that they have just nailed their argument because they quoted the Bible! How absurd. It’s also why many people had such a hard time with my post about the question of faith because it had a fabric of doubt weaved into it.
You are wearing your own glasses. Learn to recognize them and don’t let them blind you to growing in your faith. We must all develop the skill of doubt.
i scored a 65 so it called me moderate…
Thanks for taking it and sharing that with us Dustin!
37, but when I take it again, it will change. I have no doubt about that.
I have been shown not to fight doubts as a follower of Christ. Non believers have nothing to doubt because in their unbelief they are sure. Christ’s diciples spent every day with Him for about three years. I am sure they asked many questions, requested clarifications many times and were scolded for their unbelief. I think it is good to be in such good company. It beats the alternative of seeking answers from another source.
Thanks Greg!
56. Lightly moderate.
I thought your number would be higher.
I came in as a moderate with a score of 55. So what was your score Jeremy? Really great post and this statement is sadly so true: “Many people cannot do one or more of these and thus conclude that doubt is an evil that must be avoided at all costs… especially by Christians! This breaks my heart and will cripple the Church if left unchecked. Many people fail to realize the complexity and value of good questions.”
I will have to take it again, it’s been a few since I last did it. I will post mine shortly.
Romi, there is a difference between doubt and questioning. Doubt is sinning. We see this in the case of the Israelites after God had delivered them from Pharaoh. Take in the words of the Psalmist. “We have sinned with our fathers, we have committed iniquity, we have done wickedly. Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked him at the sea, even at the Red Sea” (Psalm 106:6-7).
It was also doubt of God’s command in the garden that led Adam and Eve to sin.
This is not to be confused with a lack of faith. New and more mature believers alike may have a strong informed faith or be lacking in faith. This is where questioning can happen as a result of not having done much growing. For example. Where did Cain get his wife? A lack of understanding may produce a weak faith which could produce questioning. An appropriate response to that would be to study the subject. Not doing so could cause doubt.
Doubt is basically idolatry in that it causes us to divert our focus from God. Often times we trust more in our own efforts putting ourselves on the throne.
Robert, I can see that our previous conversation did little to improve your methods in conversations such as this one. Once again you have written such self-contradictory responses that it is nearly laughable. After chastising others for poor exegesis or hermeneutics, you prooftext like crazy. Since when can non-imperative statements from the Psalms become ethical norms for Christians? Has the nature of sinning against God not changed since the time of Moses and the Exodus? Where do you find doubt in the Adam and Eve story? It seems like they are pretty aware of the consequences of their actions the entire time, they just choose to do them anyway.
How do you justify calling doubt idolatry? Your most significant statement in your post has absolutely no backing. Consider the idea that doubt might be more glorifying to God. When we are doubting, at least our desire is to know God (despite not being able to fully). When people assume they have everything figured out, they are much more likely to take their focus off of God and put their own understanding on par with His.
Nice dancing Kye. First of all. You need to provide an example of a self-contradictory statement before I even entertain a response.
Secondly….Non-imperative statement?? Just read it in context and you’ll see that the Israelites where sinning in their doubt. Why would that not be an example of what not to do today? As far as doubting, you wrote: “When we are doubting, at least our desire is to know God (despite not being able to fully).” You’re confusing questioning with doubting. Your statement is actually referring to questioning.
Adam and Eve where deceived in the garden. Satan tempted them to have doubt as to what God had commanded them to do. “You will not surely die, the serpent said to the woman.” Genesis 3:4
Once again, along with the writer of this blog, your response is lacking in biblical backing much less citation. I’ve think that you have relegated the scriptures to some kind of subjective mystical “guide” I think there is a kind of fear in standing on what is written plainly in the bible should for some because they want to leave the back door open to their own interpretations. Low view of scripture=low view of God=bad orthodoxy=free-for-all orthopraxy.
No dancing intended here. I’ll try to be as direct as possible in this response:
First, of all, my contention is not that any of your individual statements are directly self-contradictory, it is rather that your overall approach is self-contradictory and ultimately self-defeating. Once again, you have chastised Jeremy and I multiple times for a “low view” of Scripture, when your treatment of Scripture (i.e. your proof-texting and overall lack of concern for context, etc.) demonstrates a much lower view of Scripture than I hold. We could continue nit-picking over specifics (e.g. the fact that Psalm 106 is referring to a pattern of forgetfulness among the Israelites, not doubt; the fact that many “examples” from the Old Testament are no longer relevant because of Christ; the fact that the Genesis 3 story conveys disobedience rather than doubt; etc.), but I fear this is not productive to anyone.
Rather, I am directly disagreeing with your approach to Scripture. Simply quoting Bible verses at people does not demonstrate a high view of Scripture. In fact, I would argue again that Jeremy’s provision of a platform for the Church to discuss Scripture demonstrates an incredibly high view of Scripture. On the other hand, your approach of ending conversations and beating people over the head with prooftexts demonstrates an exceedingly low view of Scripture.
Unfortunately for you, I do not fit your categories of the types of strawmen or boogeymen that you would like to fit me in to. I am a diligent student of Scripture, have a working knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, am well-read in the historical contexts of the Ancient Near East and the Greco-Roman world, and have a clear vision of how the Bible functions as an authority for the Church. I do not subscribe to a particular theological system such as Calvinism or Arminianism, though I believe both are valid orthodox positions. In my understanding, the Authority of God is mediated through the authority of Christ (Matthew 28:18), the Incarnate Word. Christ’s authority is understood best (though not immediately or exclusively) through Scripture, but interpretation is necessary in order for us to understand how this holds authority for the church.
For fear of going too far off of the original intention of Jeremy’s post, I would invite you to email me at kye.ewing@gmail.com (my personal email, as my views do not necessarily reflect those of my current employer
). Thanks for your time
70!!! Progressive…just like I was several years ago when I took something similar. My guess is Jeremy is between 66-70.
We need a few liberals here
Can’t wait to see the comments on this one.
53.
Read below…
61; right smack dab in the middle of moderate. Not a surprise to me……
Nice, thanks Sara!
Jeremy, you wrote:
“This is why using a verse, often out of context, to support your argument is a weak argument. This is known as proof-texting and it amazes me how often it is used. Almost always the people doing this think that they have just nailed their argument because they quoted the Bible! How absurd. It’s also why many people had such a hard time with my post about the question of faith because it had a fabric of doubt weaved into it.”
If you think that this is all that was happening on your post about questioning faith, then you are not taking time to really think it through. Many bible verses contain the context right there in the verse. For example John 14:6 says, “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” Who comes to the Father without Jesus? No one. I would be surprised if you had any other interpretation.
The verses I provided you on Question of Faith are pretty clear and in context. However, your way of dealing with them was not to deal with them at all. You say you won’t respond because I believe I am always right anyway, yet I’m guessing you are pretty confident in your position.
I agree that bad or lazy hermenuetics are a problem in bible interpretation, but what I think is a worse problem is bible literacy period. People are far too busy trying to interpret using their emotions and theologically liberal presuppositions when is is more likely they haven’t done much reading/studying at all.
It appears that you are working hard to be an authority on these matters when the evidence shows your lack of true value of the scriptures.
Hey Robert, I didn’t see your score to the quiz in your comment?
Ha.
As you might guess Jeremy, I came in pretty conservative at a 42. Just a couple of clicks above Greg M.
I almost didn’t take it because a few of the questions seemed to lack an answer I could honestly give. What made me decide to take it was the “somewhere between X and X” options, although even those weren’t quite right on for me either. Just a tool. I am sure there are better ones out there.
Thanks for taking it.
Robert, once again your logic is self-contradictory. You accuse Jeremy of not valuing Scripture when he is providing a platform for people in the church to come together and discuss it in a healthy manner. You demonstrate your own valuation of Scripture when you try to end every conversation with a black and white answer that is picked from stereotypical evangelical/reformed pet passages. This approach does not help people grow in their faith or understanding of God, instead, it demeans them and in reality demonstrates how highly you think of yourself, not God.
If I might: people are far to busy trying to interpret using their emotions (fear from being threatened) and theologically conservative presuppositions (reformed/Calvinistic systems) when it is more likely they haven’t done much reading/studying at all (outside of that which simply confirms their previously held convictions).
Side note, I scored a 91.
Side note Kye. I was an Arminian for thirty years or so before my convictions and study of both camps led me to embrace Calvinism and reformed theology.
Read this interesting quote from Phil Johnson…
“The major ideas underlying the doctrines of grace……that God is sovereign, that Christ died for me, that God loved me before I loved Him, that He sought me and drew me and initiated my reconciliation while I was still His enemy, those are truths I believed when I was a rank Arminian. You know what, any true Arminian believes those truths. If you believe those things, you have affirmed the heart of Calvinism and you are functioning with Calvinistic presuppositions.” –Phil Johnson
76
Way to set our progressive edge Leah!
For the record, I took the test again (I’d last taken it years ago) and scored a 70.
That does not shock me.
65. That would be a great golf score at 7 under par, but in this case looks like it’s even par.
Thanks Jeff!
47
Thanks Brian!
Scored a 43. Where does that leave me?
Thanks Paul, I think that puts you comfortably in the conservative camp.
53. Expected lower actually.
I scored a 76…i had to just pick and answer for some because i felt the options weren’t the best.
Well Jeremy scoring so low didnt shock me. Jason, your low score frightens me. But you are young, you will learn grasshopper.
I am proud to say I still have the highest score. 37
You actually have the lowest score Greg! I think you get the title of uber-conservative!
All how you look at it. I am blessed. I pray you will someday see it through True Spiritual eyes as opposed to eyes of vague spiritiality. But until then, you are fun to interact with.
Thanks Jason, we all had that feeling with some of the questions.
I agrizzle.
82 for me. I won’t be leading a church any time soon. But I got your back Kye!
I appreciate the support! Don’t write off leading a church, though. Some churches are “progressive” and don’t mind a little tension
91.
66.. Although I think I would have scored high. I thought a few of the questions didn’t have answers that really satisfied me. Interesting nonetheless.
68… Progressive. I can’t believe anyone is picking on you, Jerermy! Your blogs are great! I’m so happy Kye has your back!
Jeremy I am a 61…a moderate on The Hermeneutics Scale.
I like how you summarize engagement, intellect, and maturity. Those are great things to strive for.
Jeremy, I came in at 32. I guess us old folks are really conservative. Jim