I’ll give you a heads up in advance. This post is longer than normal so if you are skimming for a soundbite you may want to stop here. If you’re still interested, pull up a chair and engage your mind for a few moments.
You may or may not be aware of the American Church Politics that go on from time to time. It’s mostly petty and always damaging. One group or another is quick to tell all of their people why they should boycott some other influential Christian or ministry. The last time I engaged in the drama was when they were boycotting Paul Young’s book The Shack.
This time it’s a new book from Rob Bell called Love Wins. While Rob isn’t new to the conspiracy limelight it does appear he’s outdone himself this time. Check out this promo video for the book (and don’t miss this… it isn’t even out yet).
With today’s technology a good way to get a grasp on the situation is to see what is being said on Twitter. To help you see a glimpse of the gravity of the reactions let me highlight a few tweets for you that caught my attention. Keep in mind that one of the things this particular group doing the attacking has become known for is criticizing books they haven’t read. It was a topic of much discussion regarding The Shack as I referenced earlier.
@Blakob88 “I’m going with #RobBell for Best Drama. #Oscar”
@newellfool “I haven’t seen this many people get so mad about a book they haven’t read since Harry Potter. #robbell”
@BrianMerritt “If I cared about heaven or hell, I might care about the controversy over #robbell. I don’t and neither did Christ.”
@bmcphail “C’mon #RobBell! Don’t you know that God’s love isn’t possibly big enough to save everyone? #sarcasm”
@k_barth “We have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ. #robbell”
@almolx “Is a Tweet attack the modern equivalent of stoning. ‘he who is without questions send the 1st tweet’ #robbell”
@greg_boyd “Lots of “stuff” hitting the fan over Rob Bell’s forthcoming book “Love Wins” I read it & loved it! Rob boldly asks all the right questions.”
@LarrySamJ “While I haven’t actually read the book, I have read a tweet of a guy who knows a guy whose boss has read the book. #robbell”
@richjohnson “On #robbell: 1. Read book THEN speak out if you feel you must. 2. Remember he is a brother. 3. Be gracious. 4. Look at fruit – yours & his.”
@JanetOber “Could it be that our beliefs about hell say more about us than about God? #LoveWins #RobBell”
@wearyoptimist “Don’t judge a book by its cover. Unless it’s by Rob Bell, then you can declare him a heretic. #robbell #hipster #ignorance”
And here are a few that look beyond the accusations to the greater conflict at hand:
@JohnPiper “Farewell Rob Bell. http://dsr.gd/fZqmd8″
@jaybakker “looks like @johnpiper comments on Rob Bell have officially nailed down his title as the new Jerry Falwell… #robbell”
@Chad_Estes “If God is for us, only Calvinists can be against us.”
@rzhodgman “Does anyone think that Justin Taylor / John Piper is getting a commission on sales of Rob Bell’s yet to be published book? #robbell”
In the desire for full disclosure, let me state that Rob Bell is probably my favorite preacher. Not that I agree with everything he’s ever said but I’ve learned a lot from him and feel a sense of gratitude for how God has used him. Let me also state that I haven’t read the book. I plan on doing that but I haven’t had a copy to read yet so I’m waiting like everyone else till it comes out.
The concern is that he’s preaching universalism (all roads lead to Heaven). Jesus clearly says in John 14:6 “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” The problem is that He also talked a few times about this thing called love. And he also ticked off the religious leaders of his day. And He also made it pretty difficult for us to sit in the judgment seat ourselves and determine who is in and who is out. For example, in Matthew 7:1-2 he says “‘Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.’”
But the biggest thing I think we miss about Jesus is that we totally fail to grasp the enormity of grace. Jesus died for us and there is nothing we can ever do to earn it. Even when we become Christians. Especially when we become Christians. Most of us have no idea just how good the “Good News” really is. With this, I believe there is a Hell. Not in the stereotypical understanding but in the notion of a realm void of the Presence of God and all things good. If Rob believes otherwise, I disagree with him. But is someone a heretic who errs on the side of grace and love?
I’m reminded of something Shane Clairborne said in his book The Irresistible Revolution: “The gospel is good news for sick people and is disturbing for those who think they’ve got it all together.” It’s interesting to note who would view Rob’s new book as good news and who is currently VERY disturbed by it.
I’m guessing Rob’s argument has less to do with all people going to Heaven and more to do with less people going to Hell than many Christians may think (or dare I say, want?). If that’s the case, preach on. I’ve said for awhile now that I think there will be a lot of shocked people in Heaven. Shocked because they are there and shocked because of who is around them.
Thank you. I couldn’t help but notice how all because of this crap spreading, that he is now a Universalist. Really? I view it as more of a book on love, considering that’s in the title. Bell too is one of my favorite preachers. It’s kinda annoying because I have close friends in churches who have literally banned the NOOMA videos from the church because of Bell’s “misguided theology.” I haven’t read the book either and I may be wrong, but I think people just like soundbites better than finding the truth. I am personally excited to read the book.
I agree Tony!
Jeremy, I have not read this book. But When Rob Bell says the things he does in this video do you not agree that this should be concerning? Rob is essentially saying that all people are going to be in heaven and that because God is love (one of many attributes) that he could not send anyone to hell. Im asking this because i dont know how someone can make this claim with scriptures like Matthew 7.13-14 – “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. How do you explain when God says that not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of God? The things Rob is saying is going against what the bible teaches and this is concerning. How would you explain this?
I agree with the general concept of what you are saying. The difference between me and the critics of Rob’s new book is that I don’t presume to know WHO is going through which gate or the actual gate dimensions at all. That’s for God and God alone. Anytime we begin to assign eternal judgment on others we are sitting in someone else’s seat. And from the video alone it doesn’t sound like all people are going to heaven as much as we don’t know all the people that aren’t.
I can agree with you in the fact that we cannot come to the conclusion of who is in hell or not BUT i do believe scripture is clear that not everyone is going to end up in heaven. This is not the first time Rob has said something like this…He said in his book Velvet Elvis that everyone in hell is forgiven! Show me one place in scripture to support this claim; there is not one. People in hell are not forgiven thats why they are there, they refused to believe in the LOVING sacrifice. God killed His Son so that those who believe will have their sins forgiven. BUT if (as Rob says) all people in hell are forgiven…why are they still in hell? If they are forgiven then the sin of unbelief is forgiven. IF people are in hell (which scripture is clear on) and they have their sins forgiven…then you must come to the conclusion that this loving God is not so loving and is not a just God.We do not know who is a true christian or not but there is a heaven and a hell and those who are in hell cannot have their sins forgiven and the evidence of this is the place that they are at…hell. I want whoever in this conversation to bring scripture to support this (and i hope Rob does in his book) because from what he says in his video and from what he says in Velvet Elvis, he is holding to some sort of Universalism. We cannot sugar coat this and must talk about it for what it is. I am not saying that everything Rob says is bad, he does have a lot of good things to say. But on this issue…the only conclusion that you can come to is the fact that he is holding to some sort of Universalism and this new video makes a strong case for this.
You may have missed this part of my post:
“With this, I believe there is a Hell. Not in the stereotypical understanding but in the notion of a realm void of the Presence of God and all things good. If Rob believes otherwise, I disagree with him. But is someone a heretic who errs on the side of grace and love?”
And in response to your Velvet Elvis reference I actually agree with Rob. Jesus’ blood on that cross covered us all even if we don’t choose to accept it.
Before I read your post here, I was going to say the same thing. Jesus’ blood covers all of our sin, it’s a matter of whether or not we confess him as Lord, and Believe in Him in our hearts. What’s interesting is that I thought it was sketchy at first when he was talking, but I don’t think we could possible presume to surmise who will and won’t be in heaven. I do believe that people will be in Hell, and I think that you described it the best way. We don’t know what it means to be devoid of the presence of God in this earth, because He is present. To be devoid of that presence isn’t constantly burning, but to be apart from the source of goodness.
Indeed.
Until he says the words, “I’m a Universalist,” it’s all assumptions and we all know what assuming does. Take the video at what it is…a preview and trailer for his book. The conversation can’t go anywhere because it’s all on speculation. Everyone keeps saying he is “essentially saying” that all people are saved. I don’t recall hearing him say that. @Jeremy: I think I know what book will be coming up for me for my Reading Highlights Paper
I look forward to reading it!
One question to the theological types. Are people in hell because they refused to believe or because they refused to accept what Jesus did on the cross?
I am not sure if I can list someone as a favorite preacher because he is Biblically correst sometimes and off other times.
I would suggest to both of you to hitch your wagons to those who preach the word,in season and out. Those who make a premise to inspire and instruct the saints and not to sell a book.
Greg – How do you determine when someone is “Biblically correct?” Is it when you agree with everything they believe about the Bible? If so, I’ve never met another person that is Biblically correct! If you only learn from people that think the same as you on every belief you have that is a pretty surefire way to stunt (or stop completely) your own growth.
From what I’ve seen thus far Rob preaches the word in season and out.
Thank you for the compliment(he said with tongue in keyboard), however, I would not set myself as the standard for biblical correctness. I would hope we both know to what we base our beliefs on. My conclusion to what I have heard is that the Bible is the standard. If it isnt, i hope i am set straight pretty quick. Because that is an important tenant to how I see the world.
I’m a fan of Bell, and the things that coming out of this for me is how well Bell comes off by refusing to be drawn into worthless and pointless conversations with his critics. I admire that ‘public grace’.
I totally agree Nick. Sad to see the nastiness from the critics but Bell handles it well.
I really don’t see how one can infer that Mr. Bell is teaching Universalism from this ad alone. I think people need to read the book before making assumptions and then test it against God’s Word. Some people love to create controversy as a way to make themselves noticed or simply because they enjoy the discord it causes. I remember that reference in Velvet Elvis, about people in Hell being forgiven, and I thought, “AMEN!” I fully agree. Romans 6:10 tells us that Christ died once for all. The forgiveness received from His death is for everyone; it’s how we choose to respond to that forgiveness that determines our salvation.
I look forward to reading this book.
I totally agree Sara! Many people are quick to jump to extreme conclusions. Should make for a good read.
I believe Rob likes taking people right up to the edge of their comfort zone of beliefs. There is a bit of “point proving” theology that gets in the way of his message sometimes. He knows he is ruffling the feathers of the religious folk, which I personally enjoy. However, with this “point proving” theology approach, we have a tendency to over-compensate with the point we want to make. Rob may be a little guilty of this, but I personally think he is one of the best communicators of God’s love I have ever heard. I haven’t read the book, and until I do, he has only earned credibility in my mind.
I agree Aaron. That’s why I think it’s important to see “the fruit” in his life to help give us a perspective when he makes comments like these.
Knew it was just a matter of time before the next Rob Bell stoning and the let’s pray for poor, misguided Rob! Sheesh…wish people would refrain already from their assumptions and projections until after they read his book. Appreciate your balanced approach and for speaking into this, Jeremy. Definitely looking forward to this read!
Seriously, he must have been bored!
Very thought provoking…..I too LOVE books/people that push my Christian ideals to my old school “Baptist” edges. I loved The Naked Gospel, it explained his views “with scripture” not just his opinions. That book, with the way it explained the differences of living under the law verses now with grace, really changed my 25 years of trying to do both! With my inadequate Bible knowledge I guess I’m a little confused on a couple of ideas mentioned above.
1. If the road is narrow, why do you think they’ll be a lot “more” people in heaven that we think?
2. Why would Bell be one your favorite authors if he believes all roads go to heaven?
This is awesome and so true, “The gospel is good news for sick people and is disturbing for those who think they’ve got it all together.”
If those that “have it together” could get a taste of what it would REALLY be like without God or all that is good for 5 minutes, I’m guessing they’d change their views. Being void of God and all that is good kind of just sounds like NOT going to church & avoiding Christians. I don’t think any of us can really fathom how really awful that will be. Jesus came so no one would have to ever know, but we are not puppets so we must choose!
Love your blog Jer, LOVE does WIN!!
“Sickly” Dave
1. We are assuming that the “narrow road” is referring to salvation only. I’m not sure it does. I like what Dallas Willard said about it: “The narrow gate is not, as so often assumed, doctrinal correctness. The narrow gate is obedience–and the confidence in Jesus necessary to it. We can see that it is not doctrinal correctness because many people who cannot even understand the correct doctrines nevertheless place their full faith in him. Moreover, we find many people who seem to be very correct doctrinally but have hearts full of hatred and unforgiveness. The broad gate, by contrast, is simply doing whatever I want to do.” I think the gate imagery might refer more to how we live than our eternal position.
2. We don’t know that he does believe that. That is what everyone is assuming. And I don’t feel the need to agree with everything that a person says in order to learn from them so it wouldn’t be weird. Looking at the spiritual fruit in his life I especially have no problem with learning from him.
Jeremy. Look to scriptural context in Matthew 7 and not to Dallas Willard for the meaning of “narrow road and broad road”. How do you interpret “destruction” and “life”? Yes, Jesus was issuing a advice to be obedient, but He was also giving warning.
The narrow road though doesn’t mean there isn’t room for disagreement Robert.
yeah boy! can’t wait for the 29th. in the words 3lw “players gonna play. haters gonna hate.”
Haha, nice!
Well articulated thoughts here, Jeremy.
Thanks Justin!
To all who have been discussing this issue, i just you all to know that i am not attacking you personally. I want this to be clear because blogs can be somewhat deceitful and miscommunication can happen. This is dialog and i am not meaning any of it personally. I just wanted to clear up the fog if there was any.
But on that note however, i do disagree with you! (which is why we can have this dialog). But biblically, i do not think you can teach that the people in hell are forgiven. And i do believe that scripture is clear that those in hell will be burning for eternity. Its not something fun or something that brings joy to our ears but this is what scripture teaches. Hell is the eternal punishment of Gods wrath. We must talk about it for what it truly is. And Love will indeed win but unless we understand Gods wrath, how can we understand the forgiveness of sin?
I hope we can continue this dialog and all of us be edified! I would encourage you to read the article from Kevin DeYoung i posted on my blog. And please share your opinions.
http://justin-bond.blogspot.com/2011/02/kevin-deyoung-to-hell-with-hell.html
Justin, I appreciate your respectful approach and your difference of opinion.
Justin – would you say that people in hell were potentially forgiven? I’m thinking of the verse that says that Jesus died for us whilst we were still sinners. I think I would be happy saying that Jesus died for people in hell as much as he did for me, as for forgiveness are we getting into semantics?
What makes someone forgiven? Jesus act on the cross of them believing in it? I, as a Christian, am forgiven yet I still seek God’s forgiveness when I slip up!
Could you clarify your point more for me? As yet I am undecided but hovering over the fact that Jesus died so that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. If that equates to forgiveness then people in hell are forgiven in my very limited thinking.
The question I have for those that like Rob Bell’s teaching and theology is this: What is the Gospel? Why did Jesus come to die? Our theology informs our methodology and doctrine. Funny how Bell slips things in like “millions and millions of people where taught that the primary message of the gospel is that people have to be rescued from God and unless you believe in Him you will go to Hell.” (paraphrase)
The last time I checked, this was exactly true.
People do need to be rescued from God’s wrath. He is good and loving and righteous, but He is also Holy and perfect. One sin is enough to condemn us. His love is why He sent Jesus to die. Why else but for our sin and our heading for Hell would He take such drastic measure?
As far as comparing this to the whole debate about “The Shack.” I’ll say what I did then with the following analogy: How many drops of deadly Rat poison would you tolerate in a five gallon jug of water that your family drinks from? I’m guessing that one drop would be too much for any thinking person. It is not anti intellectual to reject this book on what little we’ve heard. Especially when much of Bell’s teaching has already proven to be pretty bad.
Robert, if we are honest, the majority of this discussion has less to do with reacting to Rob Bell’s book and more to do with reiterating opinions we already have. You and I have already established that we live in different theological camps.
I think it comes down to the reality that you primarily see God as a wrathful God and others of us primarily see Him as a loving God. Much of this discussion is a reflection of that.
You know Jeremy, I’m glad you said that (the part about how I see God as primarily wrathful) because it reminds me to make the point that that is not really a fair representation of what us more conservative types believe. Writing things like that is a bit rash because then your unfairly group us with people such as the Westboro “Baptists” (they aren’t really Baptists by the way) The point is that God’s love is made even MORE evident in that He has made a way for sinners despite his anger and wrath concerning sin. We know that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8.
Getting back to Bell, I don’t think it’s about different theological positions as much as it is about how we approach them. One way is to study the bible by using good historical narrative hermeneutics and another popular way seems to be using our emotions as filters to direct and inform our theology, doctrine, living. You see that a lot when you hear things like “My God wouldn’t send people to hell just because…..(fill in the blank.) Problem is, that comes close to describing another god. One that doesn’t exist.
We could look into scripture and see that God is angry at sin and that we are sinners. As believers, we are not under his wrath, but justified by His Grace. Unbelievers or believers in false religions (Hinduism,Islam,Mormonism etc) are fully under God’s wrath. “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” John 3:36. to remain in that state is to already be condemned. Would you agree with that? I don’t want to sling bible verses back and forth, that’s not my point. It’s just that wrath needs to be understood so that the Good News of the Gospel makes sense. Otherwise, how does a person know what they are being saved from? I believe that is one reason we have people walking down aisles and making professions of faith over and over with little or no effectual change in there lives.
As far as the post-it note or whatever Bell mentions on the quote stating definitively that Gandi is in Hell, I do disagree with that. For all we know, God was working on his heart when he died. Surely he had heard the Gospel and was ABLE to respond to it. Only God knows at this point. And we should hope as Christians that God did save him in time.
tasty indeed!
Well at least according to this NYTimes article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/us/05bell.html?_r=3&hp, the publishers are moving up “Love Wins” release date to March 15th. Let the good times roll! ; )
I do agree that we are all bringing our presuppositions to the table. It is good to understand one anothers presuppositions. For both sides of this argument it is good to take the position we disagree with and test it with scripture. No matter what we read we must test all things with the word of God and keep what is good.
When we are discussing something like this (Rob Bell) we must take what he says on the surface and examine it to see the deep meaning of the teaching (as well as any pastor or teacher). In this case the things he is teaching is reflecting other important doctrines of the faith that the bible teaches. Here lays where a lot of our disagreement come in.
For everyone in here…here is an important question we all must understand before we can move on any further in this discussion…
Does God have only one attribute or many? Is he just all love? all of wrath? or both plus many more?
What are your thoughts and lets not go to mere men for the answers but lets go to God’s word!
“In this case the things he is teaching is reflecting other important doctrines of the faith…” Justin, we have a 2:58 video in which he posed questions. What is Rob teaching here?
I’ve read Bell’s newest book and I think it’s his best book to date. As far as God exhibiting “wrath”, I don’t think Bell is saying that he doesn’t. The problem is when folks assume that God’s wrath exists only for God’s own selfish egotism. For example, “If these folks don’t believe the right things about me, then I’m gonna send them to eternal punishment.”
I don’t deny that God can be wrathful but I could only believe in God if his wrath is only used as a path to the ultimate reconciliation of all of his children. When I get angry at my 2 year old son and punish him for his wrong actions, I don’t do it for my own selfish need to punish little kids. I do it so that my son can benefit from knowing that his wrong behavior makes his father upset so that, in the future, he will (hopefully) avoid making the same mistake again. In this way, God’s wrath can be restorative, refining. I think, in a way, we all need hell. We need the fire of hell to burn away the weeds that burden our lives.
That’s a great perspective, thanks Zach!
A great perspective Jeremy? Really? Please read my response to Zach’s comments.
Zach. Your comments find me almost speechless….Almost.
Really though, there are so many holes in what you are saying that it both misrepresents the theology of God’s wrath and it misrepresents the character of God. That is a huge problem. I will try to address your points one by one.
First, you said, “The problem is when folks assume that God’s wrath exists only for God’s own selfish egotism. For example, “If these folks don’t believe the right things about me, then I’m gonna send them to eternal punishment.””
To start with, Please consider the absolute statements that God made. “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Jn 14:6 If no one comes to the Father but through Him. What happens to them? Pretty absolute isn’t it. Also, consider Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.” Zach, this includes not only graven images like idols or false alters, but an incorrect theology about God. If a person is wrongly believing something that is an essential doctrine, particularly here the nature of God, they are outside of fellowship with him and are idolaters. It isn’t about God’s “egotism” that’s a straw man argument Zach. It’s about His immutable nature.
Secondly, you said “I don’t deny that God can be wrathful but I could only believe in God if his wrath is only used as a path to the ultimate reconciliation of all of his children.” Zach. Please show me any scripture that comes even close to supporting that opinion. I think we can agree that God has used consequences to bring a person to the foot of the cross. No doubt. Look what he did with Paul on the road to Damascus. But to say you could only believe in God if his wrath is ONLY used as a path to the ultimate reconciliation of all of His children is simply off. Consider Hebrews 9:27 “Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,” Also Romans 2:5 “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.”(this speaks of unbelievers, not Christians.) Keep in mind also that not everyone is one of God’s children. Only believers that have repented and trusted in Jesus are children of God. All others are children of wrath. See Ephesians 2:3 “Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.”
You also said “When I get angry at my 2 year old son and punish him for his wrong actions, I don’t do it for my own selfish need to punish little kids. I do it so that my son can benefit from knowing that his wrong behavior makes his father upset so that, in the future, he will (hopefully) avoid making the same mistake again. In this way, God’s wrath can be restorative, refining.” Here you are making a serious category error…comparing apples and oranges. Do you know when your child sins, he sins against God. He may wrong you in some way but primarily it is his and our sin nature to oppose God. The reason God’s punishment and wrath is reasonable to the sinner is because of who God is..perfect, holy, righteous and just. That is why one sin is worthy of eternal punishment. God’s standard is perfection. That is why it took Jesus, the perfect God man as a sacrifice. Nothing else would suffice. When you correct your son, it is on a totally different level. Our corrective actions with our children should be done in such a way as to represent God to them and show them that rebelling will ultimately end up not working for them. You do not show your child wrath, but correction because he is your child.
You also wrote, “You go on to say, “In this way, God’s wrath can be restorative, refining.” Earlier I mentioned God’s children and those on whom God’s wrath abides. As believers, God corrects us and guides us, but he does not punish us. Jesus took that on the cross. For God to punish believers would be to say that the cross of Christ was not enough to purify us.
Lastly you said, “I think, in a way, we all need hell. We need the fire of hell to burn away the weeds that burden our lives.” Well Zach, that’s partly true. We all DESERVE hell because of our rebellion and sinful pasts. But Jesus paid it all for those who would repent and believe the Gospel. To “need” the fire of hell to burn away the weeds is adding to Jesus’ finished work on the cross. His death and resurrection paid my debt in full. We cannot suffer some kind of “burning away of weeds” thusly somehow making our burdon lighter..
Finally Zach, consider the words of Jesus in Matthew 11:28-30 :28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” “
I appreciated what you said Zach. Very thoughtful and I agree wholeheartely about you discipling your son to help him and I think you would not be a loving father if you said something was wrong and then, did not correct him.
Sometimes, when we have had debates in the past, I think, at least I, approached it as wanting to make you see it the right way because that is what I think. I need to take it more as two searchers on their journey with the Lord sharing thoughts along the way. I know the Bible needs to be the grounding base for what we believe and lets hope you, Jeremy and the rest of us continue to use that as the base.
I see now attacking what you shared is not a polite, acceptable response. Keep searching my young friend.
Nothing like arriving late to the party – sorry.
I’ve been following the ‘Rob Bell controversy’ for the past week and have read just about every blog out there – a stretch I’m sure, but it seems accurate. I’ve read John’s, Justin’s, Kevin’s and Denny’s blogs, but I like Batterson’s best since he says he’s actually read a pre-pub copy of the book. A quite original (it seems) endeavor in this blog/ tweet/ post/ ‘where’s my soapbox?!’ age of ours. I’m surprised by how many are quick to condemn and type their tweets without contextual substance. But then again, I’m a bit sanguine… we’re all adults – and in our wing of the blogosphere – humble adults.
Denny Burke at least took the video (which is all we have to date in regards to Love Wins) and answered each question posed by Bell. If you review the video, Rob only asks questions – no conclusions. Why the hubbub? At least Denny positioned his argument around actual quotes. He’s got some great thoughts -rash, but still great (see: taking sin seriously).
Of what I’ve read and heard from Rob Bell, I’ve come away the better for it. I have no doubt that once I read Love Wins, I’ll come away the better for it. Even if I disagree with every deduction.
Thanks Peter. I love your conclusion and that is how I see it as well.
“Of what I’ve read and heard from Rob Bell, I’ve come away the better for it. I have no doubt that once I read Love Wins, I’ll come away the better for it. Even if I disagree with every deduction.”
How about measuring it to scripture and not pragmatic reasons like “I’ll come away better for it.” That can only happen it what Bell says lines up with scripture. That is, unless your better because you are discerning bad teaching.
Gee whiz.
I think I (and you) can come away ‘better’ from something even if it doesn’t measure up to scripture. By no means will I recalibrate my bearings from the benchmark of God’s word, but I can quiz my knowledge, test my logic and sharpen my convictions. You may have done just that with you reaction to Zach’s post.
You left out a key word in your last sentence -’potential’. It should read: “That is, unless you’re better because you are discerning potential bad teaching.” I remind you, Rob Bell didn’t ‘teach’ anything in his 2:58 video.
I don’t think pragmatic means what you think it means. You may have been looking for “empty platitude”.
Jeremy. I think that at this point it’s important for me to state that my comments are intended to address people’s word’s and representations of God and Scriptures. Never is it my intent to attack the person here. Hopefully that is clear. Thanks for posting my comments.
Robert,
We’re all really fortunate to have folks like you around who are so sure in their convictions. Without people like you, our world would feel so uncertain.
Zach
Thanks Zach. To be perfectly honest, I’m not quite sure how to take your comment because I don’t know you personally and we haven’t had much exchange. But I think it’s best to put the best construction on it and accept it at face value.
Robert,
No need to be concerned. It’s clear you’ve been blessed with the gift of precise, laser-like interpretation of the written word. Now is no time for you to second guess your gift. Onward, my brother.
Zach
It’s currently March 21st, and probably one month after all this has been posted. I honestly haven’t been following the controversy until recent weeks and shamefully admit that I haven’t been a constant church goer for many months. In fact, I have spent the past several months angry at God (stupid I know) but with all that being said I’m current and caught up in the situation (how could you not with the media attention?). What I know is what scripture has said, and it has been posted on here over and over again about Christ being the only way to Heaven. I also know scripture is clear on there being a hell. I don’t like to get into theological discussions about what hell actually is, but scripture tries to paint a picture of what it is like. What we do know, and what most pastors I’ve spoken to agree on, is that it is a place without God for sure. The obvious issue (and I can saw that now with time having elapsed since this originally went up) is Rob Bell’s teaching against hell. He believes that hell manifests itself on earth and in our own life as a result of our decision making and faulty thought processes (true), but doesn’t believe in the eternal hell that scripture tries to depict to us. Jeremy I agree that there is nothing wrong with Rob Bell’s “good news” attitude about God’s love and mercy, (after all that’s what helped me in my decision to come to Christ) however, trying to teach a “truth” that isn’t true is lying, and it’s lying against the word of God. It weakens and diminishes the acts of Jesus and what he came to our world to do and accomplish. If the trap is weak then the savior is not strong. Considering that Jesus paid the ultimate price that no one could ever understand or comprehend, I personally have issues when Rob Bell goes on to teach that everyone in the end would go to heaven and be with God. If that’s the case, then what is the point of Jesus? I also want to finish with this statement: I also have issues when people say what God can or can’t do, or what he will or won’t do. He is God, I Am, creator of all things, and can and will do things beyond our own comprehension so the bottom line I guess is that I believe what the scriptures tell me and no book or combination of books can dissuade me from that.
Regardless of how old this post is I’m glad that this was actually discussed here. I was curious as to what some people’s views were about this and from what I can see, the opinions weren’t quick to judge and were actually thought out. I’m a little over half way done and the points he brings up are not necessarily something to change your faith completely, but gives some thought as to what it might be like or how this really works. Granted it’s 2:53 and I probably make no sense but oh well. Thanks for bringing this up without saying he’s a heretic